Cohere co-founder Nick Frosst thinks everyone needs to be more realistic about what AI can and cannot do

Cohere, AI, artificial intelligence, startups, VC

Image Credits: SOPA Images / Contributor / Getty Images

AI companies are gobbling up investor money and securing sky-high valuations early in their life cycle. This dynamic has many calling the AI industry a bubble.

Nick Frosst, a co-founder of Cohere, which builds custom AI models for enterprise customers, recently said on TechCrunch’s Found podcast that he doesn’t think the AI industry is in a bubble. While he acknowledges the froth, he thinks calling it a bubble discredits the companies, like his own Cohere, that are creating genuinely useful features for its customers.

“Frequently I’ll run into something where I’ll see somebody using our model, and they will have enabled some completely new feature that wasn’t possible before or they’ll have automated some process that was really bogging them down and slowing everything up,” Frosst said. “And like that’s tangible value. It’s hard for there to be a complete bubble when you have something so useful.”

But that doesn’t mean Frosst is bullish on everything the industry is building. He doesn’t think AI is really ever going to get to artificial general intelligence, defined as human-level intelligence, which is a noticeably different narrative from some of Frosst’s AI peers like Mark Zuckerberg and Jensen Huang. He added that if the industry does get there, it’s not going to be for a long time.

“I don’t think we’re gonna have digital gods anywhere, anytime soon,” Frosst said. “And I think more and more people are kind of coming to that realization, saying this technology is incredible. It’s super powerful, super useful. It’s not a digital god. And that requires adjusting how you’re thinking about the technology.”

Frosst said they try to be realistic at Cohere about what AI technology can and can’t do and what types of neural networks can provide the most value. Cohere’s approach to building its business model is based on the research work of Cohere co-founder and CEO Aidan Gomez while at Google Brain. Gomez is, of course, known for his extensive AI research. He’s most famous for co-writing a paper that bought AI the transformer model that ushered in this generative AI era. But he also co-wrote a paper in 2017 called One Model to Learn Them All. This research came to the conclusion that an all-encompassing large language model is more useful than small models trained for a specific task or on data from a specific industry, Frosst said.

Today, Cohere uses that main model as a base to build custom models for enterprise clients.

“We specialize as people. We go into particular fields. But the first part of our education is just about how to use language in general,” Frosst said. “We spent a long time learning how to read and write. It’s not until very later that you kind of specify on a particular subfield of language. So there’s something kind of similar going on with neural nets as well.”

But despite thinking larger, foundational models will win in his market — among those building such services — he doesn’t think enterprise companies should ask their own single models to do everything: consumer tasks, B2B tasks, product tasks.

Frosst says that companies that want to use AI technology successfully should focus and also be aware of what AI technology can and can’t do.

“We’re pretty sober about how this technology is useful, and what value it can deliver, and to be clear, an insane amount of value,” Frosst said. “But I don’t think it’s going to bring about the death of all humans. And so we’re able to kind of have this realistic approach that maybe spares us from some of the extreme rhetoric on either side.”

Cohere co-founder Nick Frosst thinks everyone needs to be more realistic about what AI can and cannot do

Cohere, AI, artificial intelligence, startups, VC

Image Credits: SOPA Images / Contributor / Getty Images

AI companies are gobbling up investor money and securing sky-high valuations early in their life cycle. This dynamic has many calling the AI industry a bubble.

Nick Frosst, a co-founder of Cohere, which builds custom AI models for enterprise customers, recently said on TechCrunch’s Found podcast that he doesn’t think the AI industry is in a bubble. While he acknowledges the froth, he thinks calling it a bubble discredits the companies, like his own Cohere, that are creating genuinely useful features for its customers.

“Frequently I’ll run into something where I’ll see somebody using our model, and they will have enabled some completely new feature that wasn’t possible before or they’ll have automated some process that was really bogging them down and slowing everything up,” Frosst said. “And like that’s tangible value. It’s hard for there to be a complete bubble when you have something so useful.”

But that doesn’t mean Frosst is bullish on everything the industry is building. He doesn’t think AI is really ever going to get to artificial general intelligence, defined as human-level intelligence, which is a noticeably different narrative from some of Frosst’s AI peers like Mark Zuckerberg and Jensen Huang. He added that if the industry does get there, it’s not going to be for a long time.

“I don’t think we’re gonna have digital gods anywhere, anytime soon,” Frosst said. “And I think more and more people are kind of coming to that realization, saying this technology is incredible. It’s super powerful, super useful. It’s not a digital god. And that requires adjusting how you’re thinking about the technology.”

Frosst said they try to be realistic at Cohere about what AI technology can and can’t do and what types of neural networks can provide the most value. Cohere’s approach to building its business model is based on the research work of Cohere co-founder and CEO Aidan Gomez while at Google Brain. Gomez is, of course, known for his extensive AI research. He’s most famous for co-writing a paper that bought AI the transformer model that ushered in this generative AI era. But he also co-wrote a paper in 2017 called One Model to Learn Them All. This research came to the conclusion that an all-encompassing large language model is more useful than small models trained for a specific task or on data from a specific industry, Frosst said.

Today, Cohere uses that main model as a base to build custom models for enterprise clients.

“We specialize as people. We go into particular fields. But the first part of our education is just about how to use language in general,” Frosst said. “We spent a long time learning how to read and write. It’s not until very later that you kind of specify on a particular subfield of language. So there’s something kind of similar going on with neural nets as well.”

But despite thinking larger, foundational models will win in his market — among those building such services — he doesn’t think enterprise companies should ask their own single models to do everything: consumer tasks, B2B tasks, product tasks.

Frosst says that companies that want to use AI technology successfully should focus and also be aware of what AI technology can and can’t do.

“We’re pretty sober about how this technology is useful, and what value it can deliver, and to be clear, an insane amount of value,” Frosst said. “But I don’t think it’s going to bring about the death of all humans. And so we’re able to kind of have this realistic approach that maybe spares us from some of the extreme rhetoric on either side.”

Luko co-founders Benoît Bourdel (left) and Raphaël Vullierme in 2020

Luko's acquisition won't make everyone happy, but the insurtech will live on

Luko co-founders Benoît Bourdel (left) and Raphaël Vullierme in 2020

Image Credits: Luko

Allianz Direct, a digital-first German subsidiary of the insurance giant, has acquired the French home insurance business of ailing insurtech Luko for €4.3 million (around $4.65 million).

This was both expected and unexpected: The two companies were hoping to get the green light on a deal in November. But that didn’t happen, and Luko’s parent company instead went under judicial reorganization, a procedure that meant it needed to urgently find a buyer whose offer would meet the court’s requirements.

Non-unicorn insurtech Luko urgently needs a buyer, but will it be Allianz?

For a while, many options were back on the table, including not-so-great ones — until this week.

A happy ending of sorts? Not quite. After all, Luko had ambitions to become a European insurtech unicorn on its own, and maybe it’s now paying the price for it. But there’s also relief for some in knowing that the company won’t be sold for parts after all — and the business unit that will live on is arguably what it should have stuck to all along.

Yo-yo pricing

Luko was mostly known for offering digital home insurance in France, with some 230,000 policies sold. Along the way, things became more complicated and debt mounted as it expanded in other markets and made acquisitions: German startup Coya and fellow French startup Unkle, both in 2022.

That diversification is now in the past: European digital insurtech startup Getsafe acquired Luko’s German portfolio, which was mostly Coya’s. Meanwhile in France, insurance players Solly Azar and Sada Assurances partnered to take over the unpaid rent insurance portfolio that Luko had acquired from Unkle.

What’s left of Luko today is its core, and that’s what Allianz is interested in. For the German incumbent insurer, the deal should help boost its latest DTC push into France, led by Allianz Direct local CEO Fanny Limare-Wolf.

“This acquisition not only strengthens our presence in the French direct insurance market and allows us to expand our customer base under the ‘Luko’ brand, but will ultimately help us to position ourselves as a leader in the French online insurance market,” Allianz Direct CEO Philipp Kroetz wrote on LinkedIn.

On Luko’s side, stakes were arguably higher. The acquisition puts an end to the roller-coaster ride that the startup and its stakeholders have been on since June. At the time, Demain ES, the holding behind Luko, entered accelerated ​​safeguard proceedings to buy time to face its €45 million debt as a Series C round of funding became out of reach.

Since then, the fate of the company went through more ups and downs, with equally variable price tags. None of these came close to the €72 million that Luko had raised since its creation in 2018, but they still made for wildly different paths.

When Luko agreed to be acquired by Admiral Group shortly after seeking help, it was supposed to be for a total of €14 million.

After the British insurance group backed down in October, things became more blurry: Was Allianz’s subsequent offer worth €14 million, too, or €8 million, as the court viewed it? Either way, it soon became impossible to tell who would buy Luko, or for how much; rumor had it that new offers had fallen to single digits.

Court documents seen by TechCrunch+ confirm that Luko received several offers, some of which were very limited in their pricing and breadth. Unlike suitors Laka and Lovys, French insurtechs Leocare and Magnolia made global offers. But there was arguably more to like about Allianz Direct’s proposal, at least in its final form — and not just because it is the only one that went through the last step of the proceedings.

The best suitor?

To quote German regulator BaFin, which gave the deal its approval in principle, it is “a good solution that is in the best interests of policyholders.”

Its price tag was also the highest, and that’s not a detail. As French bank BNP Paribas noted in an observation to the court, many creditors will still be left unpaid. Our understanding is that besides investors, those who won’t get all of their money back include BNP itself, but also venture lender TriplePoint and Unkle’s shareholders.

The bankruptcy judge noted that Allianz Direct’s offer wouldn’t make creditors whole, but it had the very important merit of enabling business to continue and jobs to be maintained. Indeed, Allianz Direct will take over all 112 staffers from the entities covered by the deal, Demain ES and Luko Cover. And that’s not all.

Following the acquisition, Allianz Direct plans to spend another €25 million in the business, which it sees as complementary to its own and with a different customer target, the court reported. After restructuring it and acquiring more clients accustomed to the use of digital tools, Allianz Direct expects Luko’s home insurance activity to reach profitability in 2027.

Addressing the Luko team on LinkedIn, Limare-Wolf told them that they “will be key to the further development of [Allianz Direct’s] business in France.”

How fast time flies: Mere months ago, the insurance executive was leading Admiral’s French subsidiary, L’Olivier, a digital-first car insurance specialist whose offering Luko would have complemented had the M&A gone through. Instead, she and Luko will now work toward helping Allianz expand its digital-first offering into France, Allianz Direct’s fifth market.

While Luko’s co-founders, Benoît Bourdel and Raphaël Vullierme, also expressed happiness about the deal on LinkedIn, they might not be in for a smooth ride. After all, Allianz is also an incumbent, and its general agents are reportedly not too happy at the prospect of competing with underpriced policies. But at least it is not the end of the road for Luko, even if it won’t ever be a unicorn.